Wearing Pants Again

Packets of Hope: A Journey of Healing and Rediscovery

• Lauren Siegal • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Grief doesn’t have to end a story—it can give it new direction.
In this episode, I sit down with my aunt, author and Life Skills Ambassador Jill Siegal Chalsty, whose new memoir Packets of Hope: A Journey of Healing and Rediscovery follows her journey aboard the Queen Anne on its maiden world voyage. What began as a search for healing after loss became a mission to share life skills education with teachers and students around the world.

From the spiritual resilience of Tonga to the harsh beauty of Namibia, Jill’s “Packets of Hope” carried tools for communication, goal setting, and conflict resolution—life skills she believes are essential for students, and for nurturing safer, more compassionate communities. Along the way came wrong turns, quiet acts of kindness, and unexpected breakthroughs.

Jill opens up about the moments that shaped her journey, and how journaling became a lifeline. Her story is a testament to the power of purpose born from struggle, and a reminder that small, persistent acts of hope can ripple farther than we ever imagine.

Download your free copy of Packets of Hope: https://www.packetsofhope.com/

For more information, visit the episode webpage.

Lauren:

Hi everyone, welcome to Wearing Pants Again. I'm your host, Lauren Siegal. Today's episode is very special. My guest is somebody who I've known my whole life, my aunt, Jill Siegal Chalsty. Jill is the founder and ambassador of the Community for Education Foundation, whose overcoming obstacles life skills curriculum has helped educators across 190 countries impact the lives of more than 177 million children. The program teaches essential life skills, how to communicate effectively, make good decisions, set meaningful goals, and resolve conflicts. After losing her husband, my Uncle John, and after her own battles with cancer, my Aunt Jill set out in January of this year to heal and bring overcoming obstacles to education leaders around the world. She boarded the Queen Anne on its Maiden World voyage. Her memoir, Packets of Hope, A Journey of Healing and Rediscovery, captures the experiences, connections, and lessons she encountered along the way. I'm so excited to share this conversation with you. It is a reminder of how powerful hope and human connection can be. My Aunt Jill has such an inspiring story about healing, purpose, and finding meaning in unexpected places. I hope you enjoy our conversation. So earlier this year, as you're packing to board the Queen Anne for was it three months?

Jill:

Gosh, I left on January 18th and ultimately arrived back in Brooklyn on May the 5th. So um so like three and a half.

Lauren:

Okay. So you were doing more than just packing enough clothes and supplies. Can you talk about all of the preparation that you did into preparing these packets and what did that process look like?

Jill:

So uh the I don't know, is it called an IPN address? Whatever it is being based here in New York, whatever my computer gives out, it makes it very difficult to find the Minister of Education's address, even in a large uh country like Australia and a city like Sydney. Ultimately, even though we spent weeks and weeks and weeks, months, if I'm honest, researching all of the names and addresses for these ministers of education, heads of education, and then creating their letters and then using AI to translate the letters. It was a really difficult task to put these packets together. And I work with uh a man who I say in Packets of Hope in the book, I say a man young enough to be my son, but wise enough to lead a global publishing organization, Vincenzo Capone. He is the managing director of the Community for Education Foundation, which is which is the entity that oversees overcoming obstacles. So Vinny worked with me. I came up with a letter, he finessed it. We would both do combating AIs to make sure the translations were as good as they could be. He created a one-sheet and then gave me a card that said Life Skills Ambassador. And that card, when I would go into these very intimidating buildings, I mean, getting into the buildings in each of these countries, finding them, because the addresses often were different when I got there. Even within like a day, I think it was in Mauritius, where they had a change in leadership. So, you know, it really wasn't on me. I couldn't have known within one day and changed my packet, already been on the ship for weeks. But uh, you know, I showed up with a packet with the wrong name and they were sending me on my way, like, no, wrong name. And I teared up and I wasn't gonna take no uh for an answer. So I think that it was the security guard seeing me and just feeling like, oh gosh, I don't want this old woman breaking down at my desk. He said, Go on up. And then ultimately I was able to hand off my packet, and we've heard from them. So uh ultimately they they didn't care that the name was was not right on their packet. But it was it was very nerve-wracking, that responsibility of creating these, they were packets of hope, hoping that this thin, it's called an A4 envelope, I found that out on the ship, would get into the right hands, and those hands would open the packet and say yes to life skills education for their country's children.

Lauren:

You put all this work into preparing these packets, but uh, how did you actually get in? And then once you got in, how did you go about um convincing these education leaders to listen to you and to try and implement your curriculum?

Jill:

Because I care so much because it was such a deeply personal reason that I was delivering these packets, I was not going to take no for an answer. And I wasn't going to give up. And I will say that my precious husband was not a quitter, he was such an amazing human being, he was the strongest person I've ever met, and his spirit was with me every step of this journey, and I tapped into that. So things that seemed impossible, I just kept going. And I will say there were a couple of times where I wanted to quit because it was really hot where we were. So our winter in New York was summer, pretty much everywhere we went on the Queen Anne, most of the places. And um, yeah, it was still healing from lung surgery and chemo and uh my guides, these people, the whole concept that in overcoming obstacles curriculum, we try to drive home to to the teachers and the students is surround yourself with positive people. And these guides that I was just gifted with several times. I was like, okay, we an hour and a half trying to find the minister of education in Tonga. I was going to give up. But my guide, Luca, was a young Mormon man, uh, early 20s. He had been on a mission to Utah. We spoke Spanish to each other because I didn't speak Tongan and he didn't speak English. So we found Spanish as a mutual language to communicate. And I told him about my journey. I showed him what I wanted to deliver. He refused to give up. And ultimately, we found Mr. Oko, the head of education for Tonga, and it was uh just at that point a life-changing meeting for me. I literally had never didn't shake anyone's hand for years. Doctor said the hands don't do it, uh, that's how you can get sick. So I was neurotic with my Purel and my hand washing, and I was the on this person. And with Mr. Oko, I went into his office. First, I was so relieved to find him. And we had to walk up these steps. It was ungodly hot. And he had the whole Tongan, it was like central casting, this incredible outfit. He had a plaque, uh, like a paddle behind him that said Tonga. Forable guy. I'm a large human. He's even larger. And he put out his hand and I shook it, and it was magic. I sat down and he said, tell me why you're here. And I explained it to him. And he said, just this week, they were talking about he and his the two people that had a curriculum for Tonga, they were talking about wanting to create a life skills curriculum. So the timing couldn't have been more magical. And uh after that meeting, within a month, we had translated all of our materials into Tongan and uh we're working with them. So I just I couldn't give up because how deeply personal this mission is to help young people avoid the pain that I went through being a victim of bullying. But I will say when it was too difficult for me, having beautiful, positive people to keep me going made the difference.

Lauren:

So I want to talk a little bit about your whole writing process. And I know you said that you started writing with the journal and then eventually switched over to the computer. Um at what point did you um kind of decide that that this was gonna, that this whole journey was gonna become a memoir?

Jill:

I uh became friends with a a couple from Australia on the trip. And of course, I had your Aunt Jane, who my gosh, having her on this journey was huge for me. She's very social. And I was I I had forgotten how to have conversations with people, how to interact. I mean, I had been in a bubble within a bubble for years. So simple things like eating a meal out or having a conversation were really beyond me. But watching my sister interact um helped me in in ways I can't describe uh right now, but uh it was huge. So I just I wrote these chapters, these diary entries, memoir, journal entries, and they excited me, they moved me, and I wrote them. So I don't know if that's a typical thing, but it's like, wow, yeah, that's it, that's it. And I would read it to these friends, the couple traveling from Australia, and to Aunt Jane, and I'd see the reaction. And if they didn't, and full disclosure, I'd usually share it with my friends before Aunt Jane. I'd try to give her the final version, knowing that, you know, you didn't want everybody at one time. So I'd share it with them. If their faces were like this, then I knew, you know, it what it didn't have the emotional depth that I wanted it to have, it didn't have the punch. So I go back, and then ultimately by the final draft, I wait to see my sister's reaction. And so I knew I had something I was communicating that meant something to people. And each of these chapters is has a focus on a port or a day, and it's it's a lesson. It's a lesson that I wish I had learned, and then I juxtaposed that with someone who in my life who had learned it. Mostly it's the overcoming obstacle students that I'm gifted, knowing to this day. So that's the drama along with what I was experiencing was very colorful, um, very different. The countries themselves, the life on the ship, cruising is not uh the easy thing when you're doing a world journey. It's pretty challenging. People were kicked off the ship for fighting, a bunch of people. Um, there's over-served people wanting to punch me out. Uh, twice. I almost got beaten up. Um yeah, we had a pirate scare. We went through a typhoon, had to miss a port. There was a lot going on, and I wrote about it, and I'm a pretty emotional person to begin with. So I want people to read this book to get the messages and the most overarching. So I'll say individual messages about social justice, especially, and about the need for life skills. But the overarching message is there's hope after grief. I was ready to give up. I didn't want to go on, but my my my group of loving family and friends pushed me. Uh, you were a big part of that as one of my cheerleaders. And um, I kept going. And I want people to know that our caregivers or going through their own health issues, that there are ways to get through it. Having purpose is huge. Living for something outside of yourself, and then giving yourself the time to reflect. And that's what that journal was about.

Lauren:

And this is your debut memoir, but this is actually not the first book that you have written. Had you been one to journal prior to this journey?

Jill:

No, and I wish I had known about journaling and this style of writing when I wrote the first book, uh, Overcoming Obstacles, Making the Most of Life's Opportunities and Challenges. And that came out in the early 2000s. I want to say the publication date is 2004, and that really was my effort to give the team at Overcoming Obstacles something to tell the reason for the organization's founding, because I was retiring as a chief executive. So I wrote that as the um the testimony as to why we were doing the work that we were doing. And it was so difficult to write. And one of the people that I'd given the book to said, you know what you need to do, Jill? You really uh are I had been giving speeches most of my life. He said, You should write your chapters as if you're speaking them. So those words were in my head, and then that I didn't do on the first book, which is very clinical. Um, but for the journal, it's a journal. You're you're it's it's a speech, you're talking to yourself on paper or to a make-believe person, you're talking to your journal, and that gave me a freedom because when I was writing that first book, I was so choked up. It's like, it's so unnatural to sit there and you know, write your story, like, oh, it's supposed to sound this way or be this way. But when you're journaling, when you're writing as if you're talking to a friend or working with a friend on something, it feels collaborative, the pressure's off, and there's a freedom and flow that I felt just putting my story out as if I was sharing it with you. That liberated me from that feeling. Some people, maybe everyone, gets when they're trying to sound intellectual or make something sound great the first time out. I don't know who, you know, was it Mozart, Beethoven, some famous composer was able to take stuff from their head and put it uh into notes? I maybe there are some writers that could do it. I was not, am not that person, but that journaling style freed me.

Lauren:

When you were on this trip, obviously you had a schedule, an itinerary, and I know there's a lot of activities, I'm sure, that were going on. So, how did you carve out the time to write and what did your writing process look like?

Jill:

Wow, so being on a cruise ship as somebody who was delivering packets was ideal because we had all those ports and uh I didn't have to unpack my suitcase only once. Uh and as a writer, somebody who ultimately was writing about the experience and writing to heal myself, it was awesome. We had so much downtime, and uh I probably spent 10 hours a day writing every day other than a port day, and the port days were every three, five days. I had a lot of time to write because I couldn't go to these group events, I couldn't get sick. Um I really had nothing to do other than write. And I loved it. I was in my cabin and got to express myself. And I love is the wrong word. I loved being um in this quiet space, but also in the cabin, there was such a heavy grief. You know, you're alone. People cracked at the end of this trip. People at the end of the world journey. You saw couples splitting up, people got off early. Uh, they couldn't take the sea days. So there's these two groups of cruisers, usually those who love sea days and those that don't. Those that don't need the stimulus or want the stimulus or want that outside activity. Those of us who love the sea days, I loved going inside my head and getting out these. I write about things I hadn't thought about for years, childhood trauma and drama that have shaped my adult life. Probably those stresses contributed to my cancer. Um, but having that quiet of a ship, the sea, the set times to eat, there was no distraction. I just was able to focus on getting my stories out. It was a beautiful thing, ultimately. Certainly reliving the drama and the trauma was difficult and horrible at times, but ultimately I'm looking back on it, saying, thank God I got to get these things out in my journaling. And I have a story now that I'm sharing with others that people tell me is resonating with them, and um helping them with their own healing and their own lives.

Lauren:

And hours a day is a lot that requires a lot, I feel like a lot of discipline. Did you ever deal with writer's block?

Jill:

Yes. So after a few hours, especially in my cabin, I was cramped because I'm a large human and the desk was like this, and you couldn't put your legs out. So my body physically would just start cramping. Uh, so that and I would just hit a wall. So I'd get up again, the beauty of a cruise, a big ship, and I'd walk. And I'd walk the deck, and I'd walk the deck, and I just let my mind go. And that's where things would just come into my head. And people like, thank you for asking about the journaling and writing process. That's what worked for me, having that quiet where things not the noise of the streets or noise of other people, um, or noise of TV and all the different news channels. It was just quiet going into my head, and these things were able to surface. And I thank goodness, because I had a lot of baggage literally and figuratively on that ship, and this process of journaling and getting it out is what has um enabled me to keep moving forward.

Lauren:

I I feel like some people don't journal maybe because they're afraid of what they will find if they look inward, and as you mentioned, that there there were things from your past that were challenging. So, were there ever any points where you felt actually no, I'm gonna rephrase it. No, um, and please don't cut this out. Oh, okay. Well, I guess were there ever points when you're doing that reflection where it was just very challenging, you didn't know if you should keep doing it all the time. All that is horrible.

Jill:

Like now I can smile and say, uh, it was so difficult. First, I didn't have the person in my life who was the most important person for decades. He wasn't with me. So to go to, and I wanted to go to ports where we had been together because I wanted to connect with that, and I wanted to feel his energy and his spirit, and I wanted to make him proud. So, so that was just this like heaviness to go back and reflect on these deeply personal things. And then the childhood stuff that informed who I am as an adult, the journal, the journal, this laptop that I'm talking to you on, it was just, it was just, I just have to go back to the word a gift. So horribly difficult process, physically, mentally, completely worth it. And I'll say too that talking about it and going back and reliving it, my God, the whole editing process. So if somebody wants to take their journal and make it into a book, a memoir, it's you're gonna have to then relive it. You have to relive it during the editing process. You have to relive it. I'm reliving it now, sharing it with people. But I'm stronger physically, emotionally. I know I'm doing the right thing to share my story. I know it's helping people. I know we need to bring life skills, education to the world, and packets of hope. This book is absolutely an important vehicle to let, I'm now using it as follow-up. I'll send this podcast to the dozens of countries. What is it? Yeah, dozens. I'm going to say to those that are using Life Skills Education, uh, thank you. Here's my book, uh, or take a look what we're saying about your country. Thank you. And then for those that haven't yet responded, because there are some, we're gonna go back and we're gonna say, here's this book about my experience in your country. This is a book about gender-based violence in KwaZulu-Natal. Gender-based violence. There's cultural reasons why they have such a horrific statistic about how many women are killed at the hands of men in that province in South Africa. It goes back to Lobolo and the price paid to uh for the bride uh price that's paid. There is brain drain and Mauritius because of the issues there. There is a lack of employability and opportunity everywhere I went. The pressure on children in China, in Hong Kong specifically, they have the some of the highest rates of youth suicide in the world, as does Alaska, where you and I traveled together in May. Alaska is either the top or number two state, and this is not something you want to win for children who take their own lives. This is horrific stuff. So these packets of hope, the flyers, the letters, these messages, they're very, very important things that need to be taken seriously. And packets of hope, the memoir, is something that is helping me drive home that point for the people that I met, and then for everyone else, hopefully to put good pressure on their education leaders to make a difference for their communities, for their children.

Lauren:

Well, I want to um go into some of the experiences uh that you talk about in your book, but I guess while we're on the topic of journaling, do you have any advice for anybody who maybe they don't want to journal because they're afraid of looking inward or they don't see any benefits to it?

Jill:

Do it, do it, try it. Free yourself. If it's something that you've thought about, there's no reason not to try journaling. And yeah, you're probably not on a luxury cruise ship and you've got all this time by yourself, how are you going to fill it? And by the way, people filled their days on the ship. Aunt Jane was at lectures, performances, she had a great time. So I filled my day by journaling. That's how I chose, that was what was right for me. So, no, most people aren't on a cruise ship. But if you can carve 10 minutes a day, ideally a half hour out to write down your thoughts, to free yourself, take a walk, have some quiet time. Most of us live with other people, and there's a lot going on in our lives, but we need to find a quiet time to reflect so we can be healthy and move forward with grace.

Lauren:

When you think about all of the packet deliveries that you did on this trip, is there one that stands out as the most challenging? And then on the flip side, um if there was one that also stands out as maybe like the the best or a really good experience.

Jill:

Absolutely. Uh the most challenging was in Cape Town. Um Uncle John and I had spent a lot of time in Cape Town. He was from uh Port Elizabeth and Johannesburg, but we really, we, as most people do, fell in love with Cape Town uh during visits. And I was meeting our family there. Uh also Cape Town is close to Robin Island. And uh as you know, Uncle John was one of 18 people chosen by President Nelson Mandela. When he returned for the first time to Robin Island, he chose these 18 people to go back with him. And it was his intention to have these business leaders support South Africa and his dream for taking the country from the pure hell that it had been in to something uh beautiful. Uh and um Uncle John uh said that that was, you know, meeting Nelson Mandela, this was the his dream and the greatest person he's ever met in his life. And he then committed to supporting President Mandela, supporting South Africa. So I felt all of that weight on me to help South Africa, help that province. Uh I also, we had had students in the Cape Town area. I knew that overcoming obstacles was so important to them. Getting the packet to the Minister of Education was one of those places that I wanted to quit because not only did I have the wrong address, but they hid this person very well from us because we couldn't find it. And it was one huge building after another. Every time I went in, security, one large building, four or five security stations that I had to go through the whole protocol. Even then, I couldn't could find the Minister of Education. Ultimately, an hour and a half into it, with my guide not letting me quit, we found the right building, we got through security, and then they had me wait almost an hour for two people to come down and take my packet. Cape Town, we have not heard from you yet. That was very challenging. And every day I'm hoping to hear from them that they received the packet, they're doing something with the packet. Um yeah, I'm obsessed with making sure that these children who desperately need life skills get life skills education. So that was the the most difficult. It meant so much to me, and it was really tough to get in and find it. The most beautiful experience was in Samoa. And the day I arrived there, the minister was out, but his assistant was there. And she invited me in and she sat me down and she asked my story. She wanted to know why overcoming obstacles. She wanted to know about the bullying story about this young woman, Sarah, who bullied me and what overcoming obstacles was doing. And then she wanted my personal story. And I told her about losing Uncle John and about my cancer. And it was about a half hour of a meeting. And at the end of the meeting, and her assistant was at the door. This lovely woman said to me, May we pray over you. And this is early on in the journey. And you know, first like a few seconds, I thought, what does that even mean? What are they gonna do? What is praying over me? And then I said, Yes. Who's gonna say no to somebody who wants to pray over them? I thought, I'll take all the prayer I can get. I was still pretty sick from you know recovering from the chemo and the surgery. So these lovely women surrounded me. They came behind me, they pretty much hugged me, held me, and prayed to God that my cancer go away. They prayed that my journey be successful. And they prayed that my grief would ease. And I I don't remember crying like this ever. I just started to weep at the beauty of having these strangers who care so deeply about me as an individual they just met and my mission. And that was the most beautiful experience of the trip.

Lauren:

So this memoir is so deeply personal. Um and as we're recording this interview, it's been out for um almost a month. What has it felt like for you to put something so personal out into the world?

Jill:

So scary. Uh when October one rolled around, that was the date that we had discussed that the St. Bernard Press team, which Vinny heads up and Jeremy works for at as well. Um I was not going to have it published. I just decided I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to deal with reliving it. I was afraid people would come at me. And then I remember you said to me, you talked to me about if there are haters to remember they're not in the arena. And I say that to myself now is if anybody looks at my story and doesn't understand it or care about it, they're not in the arena. I wrote this story for myself to heal, and then I wrote it to help people heal, and I wrote it to help kids get the life skills education they need. So ultimately, it was incredibly scary to share these deeply personal things, but I had to do it. I have to do it. It's like I want my life to have meaning beyond my going on day in, day out, and having that purpose, knowing that sharing my story is already meaning something to other people gives me that reason to get up each morning and to keep moving forward and helping more people. And what I have shared with others is you don't have to travel on a ship and write your memoir. And you don't even have to write your memoir. Just do something outside yourself. Volunteer to help elderly people in a home, work with dogs that are being waiting for adoption. Go serve food at a place that's serving food to people who are hungry. Uh help children with art projects. You know, there's a lot of creative, meaningful things we can each do. Help your family, help yourself, do something positive outside yourself, and that helps you have a more meaningful, purpose-filled life. So very scared. I'm doing it, and uh I couldn't have lived with myself had I not.

Lauren:

So in addition to being a writer and a filmmaker, you've also done a lot of public speaking. Is that something that you feel like comes naturally to you? And uh, do you have any advice on on how somebody can develop those skills?

Jill:

We have a broadcasting family, uh, between your grandpa and your dad. And yeah, so growing up around all of this um was something that that I was used to. Uh I absolutely love the idea of being able to reach people and help them. Up until 1996, and I remember the event, I I did a lot of public speaking. Um, I was a graduation speaker in high school and uh spoke at different events, but I was always uncomfortable. And then in 1996, we had an overcoming obstacles banquet, and there were a lot of fancy adults and several young students, and one of the students rocked it. He gave a speech that was just so relaxed and powerful, and I asked him afterward, I said, How did you do that? And he said, I just went to this place of knowing what I had to say was going to help people, and that relaxed me. So that back in 96 was that example of something outside yourself helps you. So now, before any time I'm speaking, I just realize, you know, it's although it's about me and what I've done, it's not about me. It's about your listeners, it's about the people in the audience and how can what I've done or do help them. And that just relaxes me. It just and makes it, it's fun for me to know that people are going to watch this and get maybe hopefully an idea, or they're gonna pick up, they're gonna go to yes, I'm plugging it, packetsofope.com or overcoming obstacles.org, and they're going to find a book or curriculum that's going to make a difference for them or people in their lives or their communities. That just it warms my heart, it gets me excited to know that whatever I'm going through, I'm still lonely, I'm still grieving. I think when you lose somebody that's so important and means so much to you, you never really are over that loss. But instead of being absorbed in that, I'm moving forward in my life and interacting with others and helping others, healing myself and hopefully healing and helping them.

Lauren:

I'm so proud of you. I think that that's such an inspiring and beautiful message. How you've been able to take these challenges and your grief and turn it into something so impactful. Um, how are you continuing the mission of packets of hope?

Jill:

At the end, I want to do a shout out to Mr. Milo Kiyoki Siegel, who I see there. He's just the best cat nephew. Well, I guess he's my grandnephew. I don't know what he is, but I just love that guy. So shout out to Milo. He's got something under that door, sweetheart. I don't know what that is. Hi, Milo. Hey, buddy. Uh so at the end of the first of Packets of Hope, I mentioned two couples, the couple I've shared already from Australia. And then there's a second couple. So the Queen Anne went from Brooklyn to Southampton, England, the home of Cunard. And in Southampton, the day Queen Anne arrived, the Queen Mary II was leaving to do its transatlantic crossing back to Brooklyn. And I got on that ship and I met a couple. They sat next to me, I sat next to them at every meal for seven days. And this couple from Germany, nobody's gonna meet me and not hear about overcoming obstacles. And clearly on the ship, they're gonna know why I'm there. I'm there to deliver my packets. And the Australian couple, Isabelle and Lachlan, became, I'll be friends with them for the rest of my life, hopefully. They uh said, Hey, we're gonna be traveling in the United Kingdom over the summer. They have children there, wonderful kids. And they said, come to the UK and let's deliver packets. And Lachlan had been in the Australian Defense Force, he had been a communications person, operations. Uh, that man knows how to put together an operations schedule, and he mapped it out. And Isabel was uh in nursing for the army, so I felt very safe medically. Uh, and they're just a delight. So for six weeks we traveled Northern Ireland, Ireland, Wales, England, Scotland, and uh delivered overcoming obstacles information to the ministers of education there. That was my my July and uh gosh, most of August, and then from uh the UK, from Edinburgh, I then flew to Munich, and this couple from Germany had said, come to Germany, we want to drive with you around Germany and deliver packets. And that was then a two-week journey, and I've begun writing packets of hope. The journey continues about that trip. And Jeremy had said before I left, you're going to be surprised that the books will be different. It'll be interesting to see how they're different. I was healing, and um it my attitude in that first book was just there was a lot of gratitude to be alive, to be able to take this trip, to be able to even make it into the departments of education. I couldn't even walk across a room months before, and then I was walking these huge buildings. This next book, I'm a little angry. I'm uh seeing some things that are just really gut-wrenching, and traveling with the couples was not what I had expected it to be. So it's a very different book, um, but stories that I have to tell, and hopefully it will resonate, inform, and motivate readers. And I believe that one should be released in October of next year.

Lauren:

Awesome.

Jill:

The journey continues. And then one day everyone's going to be learning life skills education. We'll have a more peaceful world, we'll have less poverty, we'll have less divorce, we'll have better health of the individuals living in the world, we'll have less war. And I can't think of a single social ill that won't be improved if not um, yeah, hopefully completely eliminated, but improved greatly by teaching our children the skills for success.

Lauren:

I completely agree. I think it's so important for young people to be learning life skills. I know that overcoming obstacles, you focus on K through 12, but do you have any thoughts on well, like what about the adults who who never learned these life skills? Is it too late?

Jill:

It's never too late. And I and I'll add to violence. There's just uh, yeah, I'll take, I want to go back and say, let's add violence to the social ills that can be greatly lessened by teaching people conflict resolution skills, critical thinking, communication, decision making. And then I think about some of the students that I know today, students that were gang members and taggers that stopped doing those behaviors in their teens because they learned life skills. And then I think about adults that are the educators and the parents that are reading and teaching life skills that tell us. And I know myself going back into the curriculum, re learning and reading these lessons have helped me as an older adult. So the educators will say, hey, that this is this is helping me become even better organized or an even better communicator. I statements. I used, we teach the kids, this the teachers teach the students about I statements. I don't, you're not supposed to say to somebody something threatening, or you do this, you it's like when you do this, I feel this way. And the power of that to communicate your thoughts and feelings in a constructive way to inform the other person how their behavior is affecting you. As adults, as an adult, I'm relearning that and using that. And then the whole concept of grieving and surrounding yourself with positive people. And one of the chapters and packets of hope is about baby steps. One of my friends, Jean, is a mother of four, a grandmother of four. And to get myself, to get me outside my home and eating for the first time outside of the home for years, she said it's baby steps, and she invited me to a cafe. And she said, Here, she knew the things I loved. Here's a pastry, a coffee. Just sit here, it was airy. So it was baby steps, which we call stepping stone goals. And we have activities for the students about a large goal, breaking it down into smaller steps. And here you are, right here. I need to eat outside my home. What do I do? So it's helping adults on each and every day. And you know what else? It depends on your definition of adults. People are taking the uh high school curriculum and using it on the college level. And we're about to publish a college-level life skills curriculum. So clearly we're all adults. And I learned first about life skills when I was an adult. I was 21, a peer teacher at UCLA in the engineering department, teaching critical thinking and decision making, and then teaching life skills to high school. I'm sorry, life skills to the college, it was a redshirt freshmen on the football team, teaching them the skills, study skills, communication skills to stay in school and thrive. So, you know, there's more examples. It's never too late or too early to learn life skills.

Lauren:

I was listening to um a separate interview that you did on Doctor Radio. And I know one of the things that you're talking about is um, I know some people feel like in these times that there's so much disagreement, so much chaos in the world, everyone's fighting. And I know you said that you have a more optimistic outlook on that. Can you explain what you mean?

Jill:

Yeah, uh I we hear that a lot. Oh, these times, they're so this, they're so that. Well, because of social media, because so many of us watch the the news and and hear these political commentators and all all the the news, it's amplified, these messages are amplified. But when you look back at history, there was always disagreement, there were always arguments, there was always social ills. Like none of this is is new, and I don't believe it's any worse today. We just know about it quicker, it's in our face, and I have uh stopped listening to that. I'll read my news. I have a variety of news sources that I'll read, but I don't want to hear the ugliness and the negativity. I live in Manhattan, so I'm seeing a very broad spectrum of life. I'm seeing wealthy people who care and don't care. I'm seeing people literally homeless and in need. The minute I'm walking out my door, so I'm hopeful that our world is better than we think it is and can go forward to a much better place because I'm also seeing the love and care on the streets of New York and everywhere I went in the world. I met lovely, deeply caring people that want to be a part of making the world a better place for themselves, their family, their communities. I met so much more good and dealt with so much more good than bad. And trust me, and I put it in the book, I saw a lot of bad, a lot of ugly. But I also saw more beauty. And I know if we work together, I know life skills education is the solution. I've seen it time and time again for decades. And now's the time that we're teaching it. We didn't teach it 100 years ago, we didn't teach it 50 years ago, we didn't teach it 34 years ago formally to our kids. One of our board members, Aaron Capone, Dr. Aaron Capone said, we wouldn't expect kids to learn history and math by osmosis. Why do we expect them to learn life skills that way? We can't just pick up life skills like good communication skills, good decision-making skills by breathing the air. We have to learn them formally. And we've got research, uh, we've got incredible word of mouth, and it's all free. There's no reason to not teach life skills education to every child. And that's why I'm hopeful because hundreds of thousands of educators in our own country and around the world are adopting life skills education as part of the regular school day for their students. And I know those students' stories. I hear them, I meet the students, we hear from the educators. This is why I'm hopeful for the future.

Lauren:

Well, so one of the things that I think about a lot is kind of going off of what we're talking about is social media. It's so prevalent in our lives, or at least I speak for myself and I know for the younger generations. And yes, there are good things that can come of it. It's a great way to spread messages of hope and positivity and ways to connect with people. But then on the other side, it can be addicting. There can be, you can be exposed to a lot of negative things, uh, it can ruin your attention span and it can actually kind of, I feel like, be the enemy of creativity because, well, for one, you know, maybe you're not creating because you're just on your phone, or you know, there's there's a lot that can be said about that. But do you think that there are any skills that people, even as adults, can learn to cope with that?

Jill:

One of the important life skills that's taught is time management and goal setting and what do you value? So when you learn about what you value, and then you learn goal setting skills, and then you learn time management, you're not going to be the person who's spending time on their device or wasting your time because you know what you truly value, and you know what you need to do to get there.

Lauren:

What do you hope people take away from your book, Packets of Hope?

Jill:

You just have to keep going. You have to keep going, you have to have things outside of yourself to make you want to get up in the morning. Uh getting up for myself was not going to be a thing that was working, but having a purpose, having an intent to spend a day with meaning was what I needed, and from what I've heard from others, helps them and is helping them put one step in front of the other and enter their day and move forward into a world and be a part of making our world a better place. So that's the most important message I think people take away. And then really right there with it is the importance of teaching life skills, not only to children in our own lives and in our own country, but around the world. That's what's going on. We're all, it's all connected. Let's tie back to Mary White's painting of these lovely African women breaking their backs, gathering sticks. Umtu, we are because of others. Our world is connected. We saw that with COVID. Somebody getting sick in China killed so many of us, made so many of us have mental illness from our alienation, took us, derailed us out of our lives. This world is connected. We need everyone in our world to learn the skills to be civil, kind, compassionate, and successful because we all rise together if that's the world we create together.

Lauren:

Um, where can people find your book?

Jill:

It's free. Uh, St. Bernard Press is the publisher, and that's the new trade division for Community for Education Foundation, and everything is free. So packetsofe.com is the website, and you can get a PDF, you can get a free download onto your Kindle, your tablet. If you want a hard copy, um, if you want a paperback, we have them there at cost. There's a link to Ingram Spark, and you can get it at cost. We're not making any money off of it, it's just what it costs to print and ship it. So packetsofope.com, and I hope that your listeners and your viewers that the book resonates with them. And if it does, please share it. We say share the hope because uh, you know, it's a holiday time coming up and free book that will uplift your friends and loved ones who wouldn't want that as a gift for the holidays. So we say share the hope.

Lauren:

Awesome. Well, I highly recommend people read the book. I it's beautifully written, and I'm so so proud of you and inspired by your positivity and your strength. And so thank you for sharing your gift with the world, and thank you for coming on my podcast. Thank you, sweetheart. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I highly encourage everyone to check out her memoir, Packets of Hope: A Journey of Healing and Rediscovery. If her story inspired you, you can help spread the hope as well by sharing this episode and helping others learn about Packets of Hope and the Overcoming Obstacles program. I will have all the information linked in the show notes.

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Lauren Siegal

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