Wearing Pants Again
“Wearing Pants Again” is a podcast that explores the journeys of artists and storytellers, uncovering the lessons, challenges, and experiences behind their craft. Through honest conversations and personal reflection, host Lauren Siegal examines what it really takes to create, grow, and keep showing up.
Wearing Pants Again
Music, Mentorship, and Meaning: Life Lessons Beyond the Band Hall
I reconnected with my high school band director, Jarrett Lipman, after eight years, sparking memories of how band shaped my confidence and sense of belonging during my teenage years. This episode tells the story of how band is more than just music — it’s about community, growth, and the lasting impact of having a teacher or mentor who truly believes in you.
In this episode, we discuss:
• How structured activities can help young people overcome social anxiety and build community
• The discipline and commitment required in high-level group performance settings
• Overcoming self-doubt to grow into leadership roles
• The challenges high achievers face with self-criticism and perfectionism
• Leadership as a skill developed through experience and practice
• Defining success by progress and relationships rather than awards
•The shift in teaching approaches to include more flexibility and focus on well-being
• The power of kindness as a simple yet profound leadership lesson
For more information, click here for the podcast episode page.
music music
SPEAKER_00:Hi everyone, welcome or welcome back to the show. Today's episode is really special for me. My guest is someone who had a huge impact on my life, my high school band director, Jarrett Littman. You don't have to be a musician or have been in band to connect with this episode. Jarrett and I talk about mentorship, leadership, and the power of being kind to yourself and to others. Jarrett is currently the director of bands at Vandergrift High School in Austin, Texas. He is also the brass captain manager at the Boston Crusaders Drum Corps in Boston, Massachusetts. Outside of teaching, Jarrett is pursuing a PhD in educational policy and planning at the University of Texas at Austin. It's been eight years since we last spoke face-to-face, and catching up with him brought back so many memories from middle school and high school. Those years can be tough, especially when you are a quiet introvert attending a large public high school. For context, my graduating class had a little over 720 students. Thankfully, band became the place where I slowly came out of my shell and found a sense of purpose. I didn't always fully appreciate Jarrett or my experience in band back then. In fact, I probably complained to my family more than I should have. But looking back now, I am so grateful for the instructors I had throughout middle school and high school who saw something in me and believed in me, Jarrett being one of the most influential. At its heart, this episode is a reminder that you never know the lasting impact you can have on someone even years later and how each of us has the power to lift one another up. I hope you enjoy. Well, the first thing I wanted to just address is it's been eight years since I've graduated, but should I still be calling you Mr. Lipman?
SPEAKER_01:No, please don't. Call me Jarrett.
SPEAKER_00:All right. Well, thank you for joining me today. I've been just doing a lot of reflection lately, especially through this podcast and was just thinking so much about the impact that you had on me and the impact that band had on my life. I think as I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate it a lot more. So I'm excited to chat with you today.
SPEAKER_01:I'm so grateful for the chance to get to talk to you.
SPEAKER_00:So I guess, can you just take me back to the beginning and tell me what inspired you to pursue music education?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Both my parents were teachers. My mom was a high school English teacher for about 30 years. My dad was a professor at Rutgers and he taught microeconomics and marketing. And so I was around the classroom for forever. As early as I can remember, I was going to classes with my mom and with my dad and I just loved that energy and I loved watching them I always thought it was kind of like a performance and as much as they were teaching and and just knowing the impact that they were having I remember thinking about that from a really early age and in elementary school in New Jersey we started band and music I was not particularly athletically inclined and music had been a part of my family my grandfather played he was a drum major of the Rutgers marching band a really long time ago and I always knew that again that music was something I was interested in so when I met my elementary band director, Mr. Ketterer, he became one of my favorite teachers ever. And then he moved up to the middle school that I was attending. So I had him for about five years. And when I got into the high school, my high school directors became like second parents for me. They were people I loved so much. I still keep in touch with them. You had gotten to work with them at some point. They'd come down to conduct. And it just, I felt like these were human beings that were not only changing my life, but they were impacting the lives of other students and so many of their former students were going on to pursue things outside of music, but I would watch them come back to visit the program and they would always talk about how the band program had positively impacted them. So I felt at home in band and I felt like it was a calling of something I was supposed to do from an early age. And I dabbled outside of teaching for a while and it was enough to realize that I love it and I wanna do it for the rest of my life. So I feel like that, my journey to Texas was in pursuit Pursuit of Great Band, and I'm glad that I'm down in Texas because I get to work with just the most incredible students, and there's so much great support for band here.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I, well, for my first episode, I interviewed my older brother who I personally am open about the fact that he is the reason why I joined band because I was just copying him, but he actually went to Reagan, which was our competitor high school. But I'm grateful that I did copy him because it ended up being a really good experience for me. And for people who are listening that don't really know much about Texas Marching Band, it was particularly intense. So can you talk a little bit about everything that goes into that?
SPEAKER_01:Of course. I said I'd moved down to Texas when I was in high school, and we were fortunate enough to travel to Indianapolis where we performed at the national championship there, to seeing some of the groups that were in Texas and their level of artistry and the mastery of the show concepts and the things that they were doing. It's just really inspiring, even as a teenager. And I wanted to student teach down here to learn more about how it was so great. I didn't understand. I just knew the bands were good. I didn't really know why. Well, of course, when you come down here living in Texas, Texas football is like the center of the universe here and where there is great football in high school, there's going to be great band because these football teams, you know, they want to have that energy and that passion and that fire that comes from the band being a huge part of the community. And I've also found that a lot of the schools in Texas, they place a huge emphasis on what we, they call the 360 degree child. So there's a real belief that the students need to be super proficient in all of the core subjects in writing and reading and in and arithmetic, there's also a recognition that the soft skills and the life experiences that are gained through participating in athletics or the arts are second to none. And I've just been really impressed in a state that could go so many different ways with its approach to public education and to the arts and to athletics that each year that comes and goes, there's a lot of conversations about the quality of public education and what's going on in the classroom. but they continue to preserve and to support the arts and to support athletics. And you see it in the football teams here and the quality of the football teams. And so as far as the band programs are concerned, over the last 50 or 60 years, there've been some of the best teachers and musicians that have put down roots in Texas and have developed things, everything from the way they teach beginner pedagogy in the sixth grade, teaching kids how to play the instruments and the processes and the financial support and the amount of money that districts put in to these programs, I just feel like Texas has made it a priority to fund and staff these band programs in order to produce some schools. There's upwards of 600 and 700 kids in the band programs at a single high school, which is just mind-blowing. In New Jersey, there were 50 or 60 kids in bands. The program that I teach right now is just under 400 kids, and the school that we work together at, at our biggest we were at about 360, which was just incredible when you think of the number of students that are participating and the level they're doing it at. And by they, I mean the administrations and these school boards and communities, they prioritize scheduling and staffing and passing bonds to build beautiful facilities. And I'm just in awe of the kind of support. And I know there's a lot of negative stuff that you can talk about, but the reality is that we're so fortunate in this state to have the kind of support of the arts and athletics that we do. And it's not limited to just the wealthier communities. You see it statewide. The access is pretty spectacular.
SPEAKER_00:And as far as marching band goes, it is, I think, particularly intense. When I look back and think about it, you spend pretty much the entire month of August, sometimes 12-hour days, hours of practice and sweat that we spend would put into that. Are you in the middle of that right now for your school?
SPEAKER_01:We are, and I like to think as I've gotten a little bit older and a lot of the coaches that have been super intense through their time, we've tried to figure out ways to keep the standard of excellence as high as possible while trying to be more efficient. So the schedule that we ran at Johnson was that 9 to 9, 9 in the morning to 9 at night. We did that for three weeks. Here we do about 10 days, and we go from 7 in the morning to 4 p.m., and so it's still a lot of time, but we've shortened the amount of days that we do and I feel like it's made us be more efficient as teachers, but there's no way around it. I mean, these are 9,500 degree days that we're outside with these students for long periods of time, having to learn the routine, having to practice the skills that go into it. And, you know, unlike in a football program where students could be playing football from childhood, early childhood, until they grow up, or basketball, or even a choir program where kids could start singing when they're young, there's no way to practice marching band at a young age. Students don't have that skill coming into high school, So they're basically beginners when we get them. And that's where a lot of the time comes from is having to teach that secondary skill of marching. And the level that the students in Texas are doing at is just incredible. I mean, the Texas bands and the Japanese high schools are pretty much on the same level in terms of the demand and the challenges and the dancing and the physical conditioning that goes into it. I mean, we say it's marching band, but truly these students are being trained as musical athletes. So it's just such an intense... commitment. And some kids that may not like the physical part of it really have to find their why or dig deep because it's, you know, what we do in marching band is so different than the concert end of stuff. And so it's been on me as a coach to try to figure out how to bridge that gap and make it more enjoyable and more fun for the kids that maybe don't love the marching piece as much as the concert. And the opposite side, the kids that are so passionate about marching band and they don't maybe like doing concert band as much. So it's really a a unique puzzle that I've never gotten tired of solving and trying to get better at. I
SPEAKER_00:would say also years after graduating, like being out of high school, I would still have dreams or nightmares where I would be on the marching field and I completely had no idea where I was supposed to go or that I needed to perform like I had an audition or something, but then I didn't practice the music enough. Like I wasn't prepared. And also same thing with, I was the historian. Like I would sometimes have the dream of like, I needed to make the band video, but it didn't have enough footage. So it's kind of crazy how that pressure, I guess it kind of stays with you even afterwards.
SPEAKER_01:It never leaves you. I think when you're a part of something that, pushes you and challenges you and forces you to step outside of your comfort zone the way that this does. I mean, it impacted my life. I still have PTSD. I joke about it about some of the things with teaching and with being in band because we tend to say PTSD is a negative thing, but the reality is that that's how formative some of these experiences are. It's powerful, the impact of this, the challenges. And like I said, as I've gotten older, and especially through COVID, it really has changed my approach and my on how much I've had to push students versus trying to encourage them to push themselves. And I think even 10 years ago at Johnson, so much of it I felt like was just the intensity and the drive that the coaching staff and the teachers had to place on the kids. And now I feel like it's more about trying to motivate and encourage and lift and get kids to go somewhere on a journey. And it's still the standard though. And the amount that's expected of them And a lot of the kids I teach now, they put so much pressure on themselves that I spend a lot of time trying to keep them balanced and keep them calmer so that the experience is not traumatic and it's a positive one. Because it's like you said, even talking to you, you have years of alumni now that I've been teaching a while to be able to talk to and go, okay, you're 10 years older. What did you like? What would you have changed? What was too much? What wasn't enough? And that's shaped a lot of what my current students currently benefit from and get to be a part of I
SPEAKER_00:it's also just cool for me to think about the progression that I made from when I started as a freshman I found a couple of old journals that I had kept when I was in high school and the first day of band camp my freshman year I was so nervous that I was crying in the bathroom, like I wrote written out in my journal. And then, you know, by the time I was a senior, I had these leadership positions, and was doing all these things. So we interested to talk more about that. But kind of going back to how you keep people motivated. I'm curious to ask about that. Because another thing that I found was my freshman year, I written down, it was a couple weeks after the start of band camp, and I I said that basically I was thinking about quitting band and then Mariel, my section leader and Mr. Lipman convinced me not to. So how do you do that?
SPEAKER_01:It's hard. I think it's the biggest thing is it starts with having that connection and that relationship and understanding of your students. And that's why, you know, I remember meeting you at Bush Middle School and I remember doing, you know, after hearing you play and being so excited about what you were doing as an eighth grader, it was important to get to know you and your background and talk to your directors. And that's why I spend so much time down at our middle schools, even the high school director, because it's trying to a connection and an understanding of a student and also a familiarity. It's like, you know, when students make it from middle school to high school, it's pretty jarring. And if they've seen me over time and they've developed even a little relationship, someone that can be comfortable in their life, someone that they can It was a consistent, constant, and just saying that it's, you know, having the ability to know each student on a level that you can be there to be a positive impact. I think, you know, in your case, I knew seeing what you were doing in the eighth grade and hearing your teachers talk about you, I knew what you could grow into, and you did. And you turned into exactly what we believed that you could be. And so, you know, the motto of our high school is children are apt to live up to what you believe of them. And when Mr. Sharps met you and everybody that interacted with you was so impressed with your artistry and your professionalism and your maturity. And even though you may not have felt that, we could see that. And Mr. Rosas and Ms. Sharkey and all the teachers that interacted with you. And so I just use that as an example. It was important to us that you not quit and to Marielle that you not quit. And so it's the hope is that you feel that and you know that it's genuine and it's still genuine today. I mean, it's like, I can still see you standing on that at Grand Nationals finals and watching you perform that solo. Not every kid is going to do that, but every kid has something that they can bring to the puzzle that they just need to know they matter and they're valued and that you care about them. I just think people need to know how much you care and you value them. It goes a long way when you're able to motivate students.
SPEAKER_00:I'm really grateful that I that you guys convinced me not to quit because I look back and I think even honestly throughout even my entire four years of high school, thought about quitting. And I would tell my dad, I would come home and complain. And I would say, I want to quit. And at a certain point, he would say, I don't think that you're a quitter. But then at a certain point, he started doing, I think, almost some sort of reverse psychology where he would say, okay, quit. And then I would get really pissed off. I would say, I'm not going to quit. So I don't know. I guess it was just for me, I look back and I don't really know I still don't know what kept me going other than I know I was very competitive and I really wanted to be good at clarinet. But I also just think that having the structure of band was so helpful. I don't know what I would have done if I didn't have that structure because it's like every day you... you know, you have practice and you have goals that we're all trying, everyone's trying to achieve together. I think that's just huge. I really can't imagine having a high school experience without that or something like that. I
SPEAKER_01:agree. And I mean, I just, I know, I know. you know, the journey that even you and I were on together just as a teacher and a student. And I learned so much from you and, you know, my current students, like I said, they really benefit from those interactions and learning, you know, and learning when you were not enjoying stuff versus when it was stressful versus when you weren't feeling you were getting something versus when I was too focused on maybe the wrong things. You know, there were times in the time that you were in high school and I talk a lot about that where it's, I was still figuring things out as a teacher. I just remind my students a lot of the time that it's like, I had just turned 30 years old when I was teaching you as a band director. And some of my students that I'm close with, I was in my mid twenties and they're hitting the age that I was when I was their band director. And they're like, I can't imagine being in charge of me at 25. And so it was, you know, I like to think it was in some ways, you know, a super positive thing to have someone that was young and energetic. But I also think it, you know, that you were still teaching me as were a lot of the students in the ensemble So, you know, your journey of quitting, I went through it too. Like even like, I don't want to do this, this, this, this is too much. And, um, and I ended up actually taking a break for a little bit because I just, I, I needed to pursue some other things even just so that I could tell myself that I was brave, brave enough to do it. Um, and that was, uh, that was a huge learning experience for me, you know, being a Johnson and, and, and especially during the time that you were there.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. I guess that's, How do you identify when somebody, when a student has that potential? Because I mean, looking back, I did not think that I, I remember going into freshman year, you wanted to put me into the wind ensemble, the top band, and I was freaking out because I didn't think I was good enough. And I didn't. And so then I ended up not going into the top band. How do you identify that in somebody? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think some of it just it starts from just listening to a student play. I mean, you know, when you hear an eighth grade or a seventh grade musician playing their instrument at a really high level, and I don't even mean for their age, I just mean doing some really magical things. That's the first sign that there's something special. I also think it's the same way. Sometimes a student that's not great at their instrument, but you can tell they're just there as a sixth or seventh grader, they're captivated in the band class, like they're constantly raising their hand or they're so locked in on the teacher and they're so eager to please, you kind of pick up on that. And in your case, at the time as an introvert, which is why this is so cool that we're having this conversation, I don't know that you said two words to me when we did that audition, but when you picked up and played, you said everything that you needed to. And talking to your teachers at the time, all they did was talk about your consistency and how exceptional you were day to day, every day, you were just super consistent. So maybe that was driven by you being competitive in the eighth grade. Maybe when you're around people, you don't even realize there's a lot of talented kids at Bush Middle School. And so you don't process that what you're doing is special. But I also remember when you said you didn't want to be in the top band, it was hard, but I have to respect that. I have to respect that I don't want to push to a point of where a student that is super talented is going to feel like they're being forced to do something that they don't want to, even if it's a belief thing. And so my goal was always to try to, with my superstar players when they were young, was to respect their wishes and their space. I wanted to try to get you in the top band or any number of other students. But if the feeling was that was going to do more damage than good to the relationship, then you don't push that. I think that goes with anything. You want to build someone up. You don't want to burn them out, especially early.
SPEAKER_00:In hindsight, when I look back, I think I'm actually glad that I made that decision to not be in the top band because I ended up being in the second band, and then I got moved down to basically last chair. I'm remembering all this through reading my journals, and I was mad about that. I didn't like that, and I wanted to be the first B-flat clarinet player at our high school to make state. I wanted to be able to claim that position. title so that was kind of i think what lit the fire in me to to to to really practice and get back to that point because i don't know if i it all worked out i guess i guess um but i i was also thinking about my senior year so i had made state my junior year and then senior year i remember I came out of the room where I did the audition and you asked me how I did. And I was so upset. I was like, I thought I blew it because I was just fixated on what I thought, you know, whatever mistakes that I had thought I made. And then I ended up getting third in the whole room. And that was such a relief, but I feel like I was just so hard on myself. So it's kind of like, Do you see that a lot where a student is just really hard on themselves, but they're doing better than they think? And kind of how do you help them navigate that?
SPEAKER_01:You see it all the time. And it's students of all levels. I think it's so tough because, you know, once a student is passionate about something and they have put that time in, you know, you're... you're constantly trying to be not only a cheerleader, but you're trying to help keep them grounded. And that's what I talk about. It's like at Vandegrift, you know, I don't feel like I struggle with a lot of the students to motivate them to do their jobs or to practice. They do that. What I feel like I have to work really hard at is, is, is helping them work through being super self-critical or sometimes they push themselves so hard that, that, you know, they break themselves down and the process isn't joyful anymore. And, you know, It's the blessing and the curse of being such a great musician is you listen to everything at such a high level of detail. It almost ruins listening to music for you because you're just constantly analyzing. I just try to talk to them a lot about being able to turn that piece off and focusing on the performance. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The very best players that I have worked with, yourself included, are constantly hearing what's wrong with it. If you didn't, then you wouldn't be as great as you are. And so it's just, it's helping students take a deep breath, take a step back. I talk to the very best of the marching band students because some of them will come off the field and they'll be so critical about how the performance was. And I go, just wait to see the video. And then they come back and I go, oh my goodness, that wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was. And it's like, no, because I learned that through the honor band process. I would be conducting the band and I would think that this little tiny error was the worst thing ever. And I would get so upset in the middle of the recording. And, and, and that would reflect in my body language. Then I go back and listen to it later and be like, that was no big deal at all. Like that was so minor. So through my own learning and being able to coach students that it's like, it feels like the end of the world. And it's just a little blip on the radar. And you, you were, you know, through the time at, at Johnson, you're playing God to a level where, where even on your worst playing day, you were still an incredible musician. And, and that's such a cool place to be that, that, even when you're having a bad day, it's still in the 99th percentile of what players are able to do. That's what's so inspiring about it. You were the beginning of a clarinet renaissance at that school because you inspired people to believe it was possible when for years it just felt like we couldn't get kids over the hurdle because of either their beginner teaching or they didn't click with their lesson teacher. Something just wasn't working. Then I come here and I laugh because it was for years where I would only have one or two kids, maybe three at most that were as, as, as motivated as you are. And at Vandergrift, it's like, I get here and there are 40 B flat clarinets and you go to the bottom band and these kids are like angels. I've, I've never experienced anything. I said, I paid my dues at Johnson and it's just 40 children that play clarinet. And it's, I can't, we had the first chair in the state here last year and he, you know, it was just the most humble, wonderful person. And, and, um, and so it's, it's pretty cool. It's like a later in life. I, you I've seen the benefits of being patient in teaching, but I think with you, it was constantly just being... I remember texting you about it and just being like, I bet it's better than you think it was. Let's just wait and see. Looking
SPEAKER_00:back also at my freshman year self versus... you know, becoming, growing into these leadership positions that I had junior and senior year, I, I wouldn't have thought that, that that was something that I would be possible, like something that would be possible for me, given I was so quiet, like I didn't have a lot of confidence. So I honestly don't even, I remember even as the Woodwind captain, my senior year, I was like, wait, why am I the Woodwind captain? Like, I'm so quiet. Soft spoken, I don't like to tell people what to do. I don't like confrontations. I mean, I assume you gave me those positions for a reason. But it's like, how do you how do you motivate and nurture somebody to do that?
SPEAKER_01:I think a lot of the soft skills for leadership are learned skills. Listening to somebody is a learned skill. Public speaking is a learned skill. I think there are people that have natural charisma. I think charisma is tougher to teach, but I don't think you have to be charismatic to be a great leader. I think there's a lot of great leaders that are not what I would describe as charismatic. They are really clear in their vision for themselves and for others. And they're really clear in their understanding of what it takes to be great. And when we were trying to grow a band program of children that took excellence at their instrument seriously, I mean, we were in the business of making great music. And so naturally, the more you can do, the more you can do. And you demonstrated day in and day out that even when you wanted to quit, you didn't. and I knew you went through some of that, you were comfortable setting boundaries for yourself, like the second band decision, and you were always willing to put the work in. You bounced back from failure when you didn't like an audition, you put yourself back on and you just went back to work. And those character traits are so powerful when you really talk about them separate from clarinets, like resilience, you talk about work ethic, you talk about reliability, consistency. I'll be honest, I remember a rehearsal that I kicked you out of because you were being feisty. And at that moment though, I bring that up because I was almost proud of it. I was like, that's what I'm looking for. It was almost like that. There was a little bit of that fire. I'm going, okay, there's more going on in there than this introvert is letting on. And it's because I didn't, because you were never ever, I'm gonna say this, you were never disrespectful. And so for you to get frustrated about something and you're passionate about it, you were annoyed, you didn't like the way something was going. And so those little glimpses of that I think of course we saw that in you. And I honestly, the biggest thing, was just your relentless work ethic and what it takes to be great at clarinet. Clarinet is one of the hardest instruments to master and be great at. And so when you get good at that, people notice that and they notice what it takes. And you weren't just a technician, you were an artist and you had sensitivity. And so all of those things that were showing up as when we're looking at leadership, you were going to be able to get up in front of any group of students and ask them to do something. And our students were going to do it because they respected you. You weren't going to have to yell a lot. You weren't going to have to scream a because they knew that you were living every single thing you were asking them to do. You were showing up on time. You were being a great student in rehearsal. And it wasn't about being perfect, but it was about you were such a great role model and you grew into the other pieces. You learned how to yell a little bit. You learned how to be more assertive as you needed to be when you were put in the role to do so. But if you had not been put in the role to do so, then you might not have grown those skills because you wouldn't necessarily have needed them. So I think sometimes students grow skills when they're challenged to and when they need them. And I like to think that the woodwind section that you were in front of your senior year in the marching band, that was the best step forward that we saw in our marching woodwinds was that Grand Nationals class into your senior year. And where the show placed was less relevant than what the woodwinds were doing with Pineapple Pole and all that other stuff. It was a next step for our program. So I just, and that's because of the work you had put in over so long on your instrument that you were able to translate to lifting and inspiring other people to do that too.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you for believing in me to be able to do that. I also was thinking back on just some of the experiences. My freshman year, we got to go to the tournament of Rose's Parade and marched in that and played in Carnegie Hall. Grand Nationals. What do those moments and experiences mean to you as an educator?
SPEAKER_01:They're some of the best memories of my life, not just even in teaching, but just personally. I mean, being with my students at the Rose Parade, I remember every minute of it. I remember the end sitting with Mr. Sharps, giving him a big hug and being so proud we did it. I remember seeing your faces the morning when we were warming up and being down in the lobby of that hotel. Again, it's these formative memories that you share together and the journey of what we went through. And not everything was positive. Losing a student during the time that you were in high school, and that's 10 years now, is probably the most painful thing that I've ever been through. And having to put the pieces back together again, I just felt like... in every moment that you were around during the time you were in high school, those were some of my major life memories too. First times doing something, first time navigating it. And as weird as it sounds, you and the other students were the thing that kept me going every single day because it pushed me to be a better version of myself. Where I think I stumbled and struggled was when I would start to focus more on competition or results. Because like you, I'm competitive and I would always get in trouble there. I would not be the best version of myself versus when I focused on excellence or I focused on lifting students or being strong when students needed that strength. I think about, you know, San Antonio BOA, you know, the second year when we won that first time and what a milestone for the program it was, or, you know, the time that, you know, leading up to Grand Nationals your senior year and the highs and lows of that competitive season and having to learn how to deal with disappointment after dealing with so many highs because we were at extremes competitively. But when I go back and I watch that show or I watch any of the smile. I'm so proud of the work that we did. I'm so proud of the people you are. I'm so proud of the staff and the family that we built there. And it's honestly, it's the hardest part about being at Vandergrift of all the wonderful things is I love teaching at this school. Johnson was such a family and you were part of building that over so long. And it wasn't a job for me. Johnson became so much more. It was a lifestyle. It was a home. It was a family. And those trips and those memories are such a big part of that.
SPEAKER_00:Do you find that it's gotten harder to motivate your students to have the discipline to practice? Because obviously to get good at an instrument, it requires many hours a day. I I remember at one point I was trying to do three or four hours of practice a day. And now I think about how, I mean, social media and our phones, and it's just even harder to focus. Personally, have you noticed any changes over the years with your students?
SPEAKER_01:It's interesting. Going into COVID, I felt like we were pretty consistent. Like the, you know, 2010 to 2018, Johnson was sort of the same type of student. I remember starting to feel a little bit older. I remember turning 30 and starting to feel like, okay, I'm definitely millennial and these kids are moving towards, you know, Gen Z and there's a bigger spread. But I didn't feel like I started to see that shift until actually coming out of COVID where, you know, we didn't want to pressure students because of what they had been through. And so, you know, Practicing became so much more than pass off charts and accountability. It was funny that the kids during COVID, I still finished my pass-offs virtually that spring. The kids wanted to because it gave them a purpose every day. It went from being a requirement to being purpose. And so for two or three years after COVID, we benefited from that because I think kids saw their instruments as being an outlet and a release. And just at the point as I was leaving Johnson, I was noticing a change and a little bit of a shift that it was getting harder to motivate and inspire kids. And I wondered a little bit, maybe if it was me, that I was losing a little bit of that ability. So since coming to Vandegrift, I've been here, I feel like the clock has been set back 10 years. And again, what I learned, we had some shifts in our middle school staffing and in staffing, Mr. Sharps had retired. And so there was a lot of turnover. And I won't say Johnson went through some trauma, but COVID, staff changes, retirements, that kind of shift, it was a little bit traumatic for the students. Vandegrift went through some similar things. but their fundamental training from their middle schools was so strong and the expectations of what they were, what they, you know, you weren't going to make it to the high school if you were not comfortable playing your instrument a lot. And so the recruiting and the type of student that is participating in the middle schools that feed into Vandegrift, those students already understand what's expected. Here, what I have worked really hard when I got here, there was very little opportunity for students to do anything other than band. You couldn't be in band and athletics. It was really tough to be in band and robotics and and the attendance policy was so stringent that they couldn't miss anything and we had something similar but it was really intense here so over the last year you know i've dialed a lot of that back we've made relationships with coaches to allow kids to do band and sports we we try to allow kids to have other other passions and i feel like the more that i'm allowing students to pursue other things they love the more excited they are about playing their instruments so the worry is is like if they're if they're doing other things they're not going to have time for their instruments. And I'm like, I'm not seeing that. What I'm seeing is the more that we let go a little bit of some of the pressure, then the more they're naturally wanting to practice. And the irony is, is a person that I know both of you and I have had high and low relationships with, Mr. May, you know, he would say that to me. He goes, you guys expect so much of your students at Johnson that they're burned out and they don't want to play their horns as much. He goes, if you wouldn't do so much, you might see that they liked playing more. And it took me a little bit to see that. And so I feel like we still do our passes off here but I don't make them quite so intense and I do them in pairs with kids so that kids can learn and listen and they get a little more excited about it and we try to celebrate great practicing rather than make it a you must do this and you know, our enrollment numbers went up this year. We're actually about 30 kids bigger in a school that's getting smaller. So I think some of these things that I'm trying to do are things that I learned from seeing Johnson shrinking, going, why did it get smaller? What was I contributing to that? So we have had to adjust it. We've had to understand that kids have a lot of choices that kids don't, you know, the kids want to love and look forward to playing their instruments. But it's tough because you can't be good at it without putting time in. And so it's You always have to say, if you want to be the best, that there's no shortcut. There are no shortcuts. You can't cheat the work. And that's the biggest thing. You never cheated the work. And I don't know how to tell students that say, I want to see your picture is still up on that wall at Johnson. The kids that envision their picture up there, it's like, those are the kids you say you can't cheat the work. You're going to be on that instrument a lot.
SPEAKER_00:That's so true. That was a huge motivator. I wanted to see my photo hanging on that wall.
SPEAKER_01:It's still there. Would
SPEAKER_00:you say your definition of success has changed over the years?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, but I say that with a precursor. It's not an ego thing. I set a lot of goals and achieved a lot of success early on in my career. I think about things that I was doing at 25 and 26 that many of my colleagues have worked 30 years to be able to achieve. And I did the work 80 hours a week. My life was all banned and it consumed. And so a lot of things, there were a lot of bucket list milestones that came really early for me. I watched Mr. Morrison at Reagan achieve a lot of things really early too. And the drawback of that is when you start achieving these goals, you start to figure out, okay, that didn't feel like I thought it was going to when I achieved that goal. What did I love about that? So is it that I loved winning or is it that I loved being with a group of students when we achieved a goal together? So I think for me where it's evolved is it went from wondering how I would feel to win something or wondering how I would feel to see a student make Allstate and what it would feel like to know I was their teacher to now being like, I think success is in, it's the little day-to-day journey. It's looking at where we started in the morning and where we ended the day and we made something a little bit better and we were still having fun at the end of the day. I think success is when you email me or text me and say, hey, I'd love to do a podcast and talk to you about my experience of band. That's way more meaningful to me than anything that we accomplished competitively when you were in high school. That's success to me because it's special. It's like Like, okay, the things that we did, you and I did, Mr. Sharps did, our band did, made an impact that lasted beyond a memory or a trophy. I think success is being able to look at the people that you spend time with every day and feel like you're lifting them and you're treating them well and that they look forward to going to work every day and that students look forward to being in the band hall. And I think that a part of what drives students is excellence. They wanna be pushed, they wanna be challenged, They want to see those, I mean, we're all competitive. I tell the Vandergrift kids, like, I'm not afraid for you to talk about winning. You know, I also don't want you to be afraid to talk about losing. Like, we can talk about both and realize that, you know, both of them have a lot of value. And I think sometimes loss, you know, we went, Johnson, at one point, we went like seven regionals in a row that we won, almost to the point where the kids were getting announced in first and it wasn't special anymore. I think about what it was like when we won the first time versus the seventh and we needed to lose again. And when we lost, that loss made winning feel good again. And so it's just that ebb and flow. So what I feel really successful about is the number of relationships that I've maintained and still have with the Johnson students and the parents and the staff. And I feel like I'm trying to build that as quickly as I can at Vandegrift. It's just, it's, I think that has to be what keeps me going because winning band contests is not life sustaining, even though it's fun. I love it. And I'll keep trying to do it. It's all the other stuff that surrounds that and goes into that, that I think really defines, you know, success for me.
SPEAKER_00:And if you could leave your students past, present, future with one lasting message, what would it be?
SPEAKER_01:It's tough, I think a lot about it. As people have like their rehearsed spiel, the greatest message that I could leave with my students is, I hope they grow up to be kind people. I hope if they have an opportunity to treat someone well, I hope if they have an opportunity to make someone's day, I hope if they have an opportunity to lift up another person, they do it and they don't wait. I hope if they have an opportunity to tell someone how much they mean, they do it. I hope if they have an opportunity to look in the mirror and be kind to themselves, they don't wait. They don't waste time in that. And I can't think of any other experience of loss and when and you lose someone and you don't get to tell them what you think of them or a moment where you had an interaction with someone where you made their day worse. Those are the things that I hope my students will take as they go out into the world. You're not gonna be perfect every day at your craft, but it takes no skill to be kind. And if you can be kind and you can lift people, I just think we need more of that. And I'm not saying kindness is weakness. I don't see that. I think students can stand up for their views be powerful and I hope they're change agents. I want them to go out and make the world better and fight things that are wrong. Um, but in their day-to-day interactions with people, don't let the negativity and the anger turn them into a worse version of themselves than what I saw when they were in the sixth and seventh grade. Cause they were, they were just, you're so sweet. You're the sweetest things when you're little babies. So,
SPEAKER_00:um, I'm sorry. I don't know why I'm getting emotional, but, um, I really appreciate that. And I think middle school and high school were, for me at least, they were very challenging in a lot of ways. And I think I just felt like an outsider for, sorry, I felt like I just was so excited to, I guess, be done with it. Thinking like, things will just get better if I go to college far away. And it's like, you take yourself with you everywhere you go, but the lessons and the experiences that I had because of band have really stuck with me. And it's just something, especially lately that I've just been really thinking about and I'm just so grateful and appreciative for, and also just appreciative of you for believing in me when I didn't believe in myself. So thank
SPEAKER_01:you. I'm so proud of you. And it's been so fun to watch you from afar and to see you achieving these dreams. And I'll text Mr. Rosas and Ms. Sharkey when I hear from you and Mr. Bennett. And it's just really cool because it's everything you would want to see for your student is that they grow into the person that they're capable of and then more. And you just living your life, there's so many people that are so proud of you. And I hope you know that. I hope you know what gift you've been and continue to be so it's uh it's really special lauren
SPEAKER_00:thank you so much thank you so much for listening to this episode i really enjoyed catching up with jared and reflecting on how much those band experiences shaped me If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow or subscribe wherever you're listening. And if you have a moment, I'd really appreciate it if you could leave a five-star review and share the podcast with someone you think might enjoy it. Thanks again, and I'll talk to you next time.
